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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
23
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Posted - 2011.10.31 00:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is to all the players out there who think that just because they are mining or missioning, that they are entitled to some kind of immunity from the griefers who gank them.
Let me enlighten you with something. Griefing is part of the game. I don't care if you don't like that statement. Just because that statement is rude doesn't mean it's not true. We have all been conditioned from the beginning of this game's birth to believe that every player is fair game to all others. It's been posted by CCP many times over. We've seen the clues embedded in the trailers (The incursion trailer as well as the butterfly effect trailer). There were many events that occurred during the past 4 years alone that gave hints to the true nature of Eve Online. In fact, it took a New-Eden-wide event like Hulkageddon and now the recent Goonswarm attack on ice miners to make it blatantly clear to us.
Nowhere in New Eden is 100% safe.
Do not fly around in what you cannot afford to lose or protect.
We miners are hard working individuals that ensure that there is a constant stream of minerals needed for ship production. However, there are many miners like me who feel that destruction is so important to our bottom line that we even welcome griefers to try to attack us for whatever purpose they like. After all, this also helps the bottom line of those who spend time building mining ships in the first place who then have to spend ISK buying the minerals we mined for. The same could be said for missioners who look forward to the adrenaline rush they get from being attacked by a mission griefer.
Even the forum makes it adamantly clear that griefing is part of the game and that destruction is necessary for the Eve economy. For those of you who took the time to train up to a Covetor to mine or to a Raven to mission in, then obviously you had to have taken the time to read up on the forums and notice that Eve, even in highsec, is a dark and cruel world. If players are more than willing to go as far as commit corp theft, scam other players, and even manipulate the market, then surely they will no doubt try to grief miners and missioners.
So don't expect CCP to hold your hands and protect you (let alone reimburse what you lost from a gank) because they are the one who told us that each of us is fair game. If you want a game that allows you to grind and mine without interruption, you're in the wrong game.
HTFU or GTFO. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 00:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Embrace My Hate wrote:Amen
*Henry looks at the name...
*Henry smiles............. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 00:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
sorry double post |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 01:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Henry Haphorn wrote:.....[insert thread title #987,543,234 here]...... And you fly in highsec because.......?
To escape the politics of nullsec alliance. Too much drama while I was there and I got tired of being forced to change to a new corp every time my old corp left the alliance.
By the way, I got attacked about three times in highsec recently during the past two or three weeks. The danger of mining in highsec is hardly different from mining in nullsec. Only difference is that nullsec allows you to see who is red and who is blue. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 01:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote:Barbelo Valentinian wrote: Five words: Quoted for lack of relevance.
Actually, I think that syndrome makes sense. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 01:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:
So he says. Any player that is HAPPY to have fire rain down on their heads is either a masochist or flat-out lying.
I call "don't make my griefing too hard for me" troll post.
I can pull out my certificates if you want.
Oh, I never asked griefers to take it easy on me. Just ask those who ganked me (ask Guillaume LeConquerant for a reference). |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
27
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 01:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
leviticus ander wrote:The Apostle wrote:
So he says. Any player that is HAPPY to have fire rain down on their heads is either a masochist or flat-out lying.
I call "don't make my griefing too hard for me" troll post.
or he's making a plea to the bitchy miners out there to stop being so bitchy.
Quoted for accuracy.
To the miners.
Oh, and one more thing. Tank your god damn mining ships. The Goons are freakin everywhere killing miner and yet some miners still decide to fit for max yield at the expense of defenses. Who's really at fault here for losing their own mining ship? |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
29
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 02:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Justin Credulent wrote:Quote:Who's really at fault here for losing their own mining ship? ...stuff said...
Under normal situations, yes. It's the criminal's fault. But having an entire alliance such as Goonswarm running around ganking miners (while paying others to do the same and announcing it ahead of time) is not a normal situation. Neither was Hulkageddon. Yet players decided to not properly tank their ships during these events. My argument still stands.
Edited for grammar. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
29
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 02:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:
This man get's it.
There ARE new players coming in all the time. How many LEAVE because they have next to no chance at getting a decent start. The bittervets have AMPLE opportunity to play Eve - elsewhere. They PREFER to sit in highsec killing noobs (or supporting it) and then justify it with "This is Eve" bullshit. Pure and simple.
If we keep catering only for the bandy-kneed old men of Eve it will become "Bittervets Retirement Home version 4".
I have a friend who likes to play Eve Online. However, I make it abundantly clear to him that he should expect griefers when mining. He hardly looked discouraged from what I told him. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 03:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Elyssa MacLeod wrote:
Partly why we got an apology is my guess
Those people left mostly because of how the first release of Incarna was handled. Way different from what we're talking about here. |
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Henry Haphorn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 03:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Justin Credulent wrote:Henry Haphorn wrote:Justin Credulent wrote:Quote:Who's really at fault here for losing their own mining ship? ...stuff said... Under normal situations, yes. It's the criminal's fault. But having an entire alliance such as Goonswarm running around ganking miners (while paying others to do the same and announcing it ahead of time) is not a normal situation. Neither was Hulkageddon. Yet players decided to not properly tank their ships during these events. My argument still stands. Edited for grammar. Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that we were suddenly talking about Hulkageddon, since the OP made no such mention of it and only made reference to said "normal circumstances".  (BTW, Announcing that you're going to rob someone's house also does not abrogate your own criminal responsibility.) Quote:This man get's it.
There ARE new players coming in all the time. How many LEAVE because they have next to no chance at getting a decent start. The bittervets have AMPLE opportunity to play Eve - elsewhere. They PREFER to sit in highsec killing noobs (or supporting it) and then justify it with "This is Eve" bullshit. Pure and simple.
If we keep catering only for the bandy-kneed old men of Eve it will become "Bittervets Retirement Home version 4". If CCP keeps catering only to the bittervets, then that's the only people who will play. And, in reality, the "bittervets" are a very small minority of EVE: Fact: The total average SP for characters on EVE is around 10-14 million. That's how many months of play-time...? 10? Another Interesting Fact: There are 20,000 trial accounts created each month.
Stop taking it so seriously. This is just a game after all. Like the folks in the other thread already pointed out: Eve is a place where morality is left at the login screen. Because of this, very few things will ever make sense. Even I can sometimes don't make sense, am I right?. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
46
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 12:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
My OP has been edited accordingly. Thank you. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 22:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nice to see that I got the covneration rolling. Seven pages and counting.
Let me just set one thing straight. I condone ganking miners and missioners up until the point when we start talking about bots. From there, that's when I start becoming a little more friendly to the carebear miners. Why? Because I generally don't like it when gankers are attacking any miner or missioner in a given system simply because they are not sure as to which ship is a bot (in other words, they don't do their homework).
I know, it's a huge double standard I am putting up for display here. How could I possibly condone suicide ganking if I don't condone ganking innocent miners for the purpose of mitigating the bot problem? Simple: Bots are not suppose to be part of the game. They're illegal in the game anyways.
Now, if we're talking about ganking for the purpose of winning a prize in an event or for trying to stake a claim on a belt that you don't want anyone else to have or for just getting people to buy mining ships to replace, then by all means, go right ahead.
Like I said earlier, since morality is left at the login screen for most players here, not a lot of things will make sense.
PS: For those pointing out that being in a station is 100% safe, I got a question: Have you tried to scam someone through a trade or contract? Have you dealt with 0.01ISK games? Have you seen your corp assets get stolen by a corp thief? |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 23:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Borun Tal wrote:Quote:Those who miners and missioners who wish to be left alone. What?!!?!?! tl;dr (Inane subject line)
I guess I should fix that then. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 23:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Vricrolatious wrote:Honestly, the best advise I could give to someone that wants to mine and be safe... join a decent nullsec alliance and move out of empire. I've mined (I'm not afraid to admit it) in High, Low and Nullsec and mining in Nullsec was probably the safest I've been when it came to mining. The best belts need to be scanned down, which means the reds and neutrals need probes to find you and that gives you extra time to warp to a POS and safe up before they find you and make veldspar dust out of you.
As perverse as it is for me to agree with a Goon this is perfectly true and may well prove to a consequence of continued highssec ganking. Better the known enemy. But it may cause issues for Eve as a whole because to mine for Alliance X and sell to Alliance Y could well be seen as treason. There may be alliance embargoes about selling rocks on the open market, in addition to alliances themselves putting the squeeze on miners profits through ridiculous refining percentages. This will become a very serious inflation issue if the rumour about Drone mineral drops are also true.
Thus, another reason why I left Majesta Empire. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 23:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Probably the best Goon poster. And Apostle is pretty cool, he kills rocks & doesn't afraid of anything. And are you still arguing about semantics?
I think Apostle is cool too, regardless of the debate we just had. He sounds like the sort of person I can talk to while mining. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 00:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Anyone who seriously mines in highsec deserves to be ganked. As a miner you could easily get accepted into any renter alliance or nullsec alliance that has a Indy Corp. You could then site in hidden belts mining ABC ore making 10x what you do in highsec. Most corporations will buy your ore close to Jita price and even if it is lower its still more then you make in highsec. Added to the fact that you are surrounded by intel channels and have a clear idea of who is hostile or not. Lastly as a miner you generally aren't really expected to do much other then maybe a mining Op 1-2 times a week.
Not exactly. You are ignoring the fact that renter alliances and null sec alliances tend to treat miners like crap. Miners are generally regarded as extra firepower that can be used as cannon fodder when needed. CTAs are common, some mining ops tend to force miners to mine for free, the list goes on. It is true one can make profit in null sec, but the action is minimal in terms of how often you get attacked unless you mine near a contested system. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
63
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 03:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:ACY GTMI wrote:I had a really nice, well thought out response, but CCP's "New Forums" ate it. Aren't you glad? "Stupid miners don't know how to fly ships, don't get it" ad nuseum. Some blokes haven't learned Ctrl C, Crtl V. And you call miners stupid.
LOL
That happens to me occasionally. Learned to adapt my posting habits accordingly. Copy/paste FTW.
In regards to the insurance bit. The pros and cons (as pointed out by you guys) of penalizing insurance payouts for unprovoked aggression in high sec are pretty clear. If anything, the pros and cons cancel each other out.
In regards to the tanking of the Hulk, Apostle is right about a Hulk never standing a chance against 2x Alpha Brutix and maybe a Thrasher. And considering the re-balancing of destroyers along with the removal of the RoF penalty, dessies will be more common in ganks. Of course, this all assumes that the Hulk is alone. Who is to say that the Hulk pilot doesn't have a logi pal to back him up? And I've seen plenty of friendly high-sec corps willing to help a miner out. If the Hulk is not alone, and there is a plan in place (and a strategy that adapts accordingly), a Hulk can surely survive the 2x Alpha Brutix.
Miners can also exploit the same game mechanics that gankers rely on (assuming they are resourceful enough to have a second account - which is not always the case).
Lone miners can still survive if they can learn not to semi-afk. But sometimes even that can be ruined by a small frigate bumping said miner out of alignment.
It's a mixed bag, really. There is no such thing as a one-size-fit-all strategy to surviving a gank. But each individual miner can form their own strategy suited specifically to their taste and situation. But if a miner cannot tank their Hulk, then that miner might as well tank their wallet and mine in a cheap Covetor that they can afford to lose and make up for the loss in minerals gained. Although, I prefer to simply move and look for the isolated, out-of-the-way systems (if you're daring enough, you can go through lowsec - it's not that bad really). |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
66
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 22:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ok guys, this thread is starting to get a little too long. I'm starting to lose track of what people are trying to say and what points they're trying to make. Besides, I think 10+ pages of debate is more than enough for now.
Nothing personal.
Moderators, please lock thread. |
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